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  1. #21
    Ancient Alien Member harte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gparis View Post
    What proof do you have that they were built in the A.D as you put it, rocks can not be carbon dated please explain how you come to the conclusion that they were built in the A.D ?
    Very true. But organic material found under the stone CAN be dated, and couldn't have been put there after the stone was placed.
    Several of these dates come from such material - again, under the stone.

    That list isn't even complete. There have literally been thousands of organic samples tested from the Tiahuanaco site and surrounding environs.

    Quote Originally Posted by gparis View Post
    It is interesting that you are quick to discount peoples ideas and thoughts after you state that l am free to believe what l like and then call it hooey it is this behavior of people such as yourself that keep us in the dark ages. I am only expressing my thoughts and ideas on such topics l am not forcing them on anyone as long as people with small minds exist there is no such thing as free.
    I offer facts. If facts discount people's ideas and thoughts, is that my fault? Am I to simply sit idly by while a poster presents ideas that are demonstrably false?
    Would you prefer to continue chasing an imaginary rabbit down a non-existing hole, or would you prefer to find out what's actually known and move on from there with your speculation?

    Your response is one of the reasons I left this board a 2 years ago. For offering you actual knowledge, I receive in return your ad hominem that I am "small minded."

    If you refuse factual knowledge, who exactly has the closed mind here?

    Harte
    Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do so. - Bertrand Russell

  2. #22
    Appreciate your support Karl l have dealt with his kind and worse in my travels. I come from a proud race that was butchered, ridiculed and displaced from our home lands the Black Sea Kingdom of Pontus (now Turkey) were buildings from more than 2,000 years ago are still standing and lived in and that's as far back as the BC to people like Harte. And the great thing is we are still around. I can tell you how our buildings were built even though they were built so long ago. I can't tell you how the structures in Puma Punku were made all l can do is guess like most of us.


    "I think therefore l am" (Rene Descartes)

  3. #23
    Gparis, thank you all I can tell you is to hang in there these skeptics and nay sayers are a dying breed, they have this motto it's " dazzle them with brilliance and baffle them with bullshit " and after awhile they just kinda fade away .... not all but many do because we the ones who do the research prove them wrong time and time again. Karl

  4. #24
    Ancient Alien Member harte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by curious karl View Post
    Gparis, thank you all I can tell you is to hang in there these skeptics and nay sayers are a dying breed, they have this motto it's " dazzle them with brilliance and baffle them with bullshit " and after awhile they just kinda fade away .... not all but many do because we the ones who do the research prove them wrong time and time again. Karl
    That would really be something.
    Let me ask - why is it that you've never, ever done this thing that you claim to have done "time and time again"?

    And, now, because I provided facts about Pumapunku in the face of posts offering nothing but parroted lies from fringe authors, I am a murderous ransacker of entire cultures?
    Really?

    Look, I was asked to return here in a email from the administrator in a plea for traffic which fell completely off a cliff due to the inanity of the tiny number of posters that remained here. If you don't want factual information on the ancient past, exactly what are you going to base your pipe dreams on anyway? Disney flicks?

    I don't owe any of you squat. You don't deserve the useful and factual information I've provided.
    I do this for myself, not for you self-important snowflakes.

    If you'd rather not know anything about antiquity, what the hell are you doing on this forum?

    Harte
    Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do so. - Bertrand Russell

  5. #25
    No one is taking a stab at you Harte at least not the way you have been discrediting peoples ideas and opinions on these matters and l emphasize ideas and opinions. We too were invited to take part in these open discussions via Email by the administrators.

    And yes the information you have provided is interesting and makes good reading but it doesn't mean its 100% right.

    If you have seen any of the videos that people who have visited these sites and observed that they themselves are not sure how all these structures have come to be. One thing that they do point out is that they seem to not be original that is some one at some time has come along and made some changes to them which can be seen via a mixture of 2 different types of stone/rock used or combined perhaps an attempt to duplicate or rebuild them in honor of their original builders who they would have called Gods.

    Maybe that's why they are getting dates in the A.D when they carbon date the organic matter under certain areas of these structures and l am saying maybe. Also what's to say that some of the organic matter hasn't leached in under these structures in recent times due to weathering. A bit like DNA tests that have been contaminated. Again just my opinion not saying that is the case l am not an expert nor have l said l am.

    If you lift up the heaviest rock or stone whether its in your back yard or out in the wilderness somewhere you are telling me that you won't find any bugs or creatures living under them? Might they add to organic matter would this affect carbon dating ?

    I am taking the 50/50 approach meaning maybe it is and maybe it isn't thus the open mind.

    Would you prefer we all leave this forum so that you don't have to contend with other peoples thoughts and ideas on such matters ? We are not saying we are experts we are not saying that it is gospel all we are doing is adding our thoughts and ideas. Isn't that what these types of forums are all about ?

    "Rarely do we find men who willingly engage in hard, solid thinking.
    There is an almost universal quest for easy answers and half-baked solutions.
    Nothing pains some people more than having to think."
    Martin Luther King, Jr.

  6. #26
    Ancient Alien Member harte's Avatar
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    No, I would prefer not being denigrated when I supply the facts as they are known (and why and how they are known) to a claim made by someone that doesn't know about the facts I provided.

    I've said it before here and many other places. It's fine to speculate in areas where there is a lot of questions. It's not fine to speculate in areas where the facts are already known.

    If a person wants to put forward fantastic ideas about the past, it is only common sense that these ideas should be shaped to fit in with the known material. Otherwise, the person is just fantasizing.

    Not that fantasizing is a big deal. But it becomes sort of a big deal to me when those fantasies are stated as if they complied with the known facts on the matter when they actually run completely contrary to them.

    Harte
    Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do so. - Bertrand Russell

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by harte View Post
    No, I would prefer not being denigrated when I supply the facts as they are known (and why and how they are known) to a claim made by someone that doesn't know about the facts I provided.

    I've said it before here and many other places. It's fine to speculate in areas where there is a lot of questions. It's not fine to speculate in areas where the facts are already known.

    If a person wants to put forward fantastic ideas about the past, it is only common sense that these ideas should be shaped to fit in with the known material. Otherwise, the person is just fantasizing.

    Not that fantasizing is a big deal. But it becomes sort of a big deal to me when those fantasies are stated as if they complied with the known facts on the matter when they actually run completely contrary to them.

    Harte
    Well said Harte good to have you back. I think that many do not give enough credit to the natural skills, ingenuity and mentality of our ancestors -- possibly because of their own limited education and understanding. First hand travel to the sites of many of the so-called wonders of megalithic construction results in the understanding that the past methods and techniques were able to do what many think was impossible with simple tools and the major factor of lots of time and concerted manpower. On an even more recent time frame, a visit to for instance some Norman churches would make one wonder how the people of the time were able to design and construct such buildings. Cheers NN

  8. #28
    Ancient Alien Senior Member Marlene's Avatar
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    Just found this short doc (26mins), that explains how the stones were cut and it seems to be most logical and true... enjoy. If Harte does have me on IGNORE, perhaps you will tell him about it. There is also a second video part 2, that is even more interesting. Thx, M.


    Amazing Ancient Solar Stonecutting Techniques [DOCUMENTARY] - YouTube
    Last edited by Marlene; 05-03-2017 at 03:50 PM.

  9. #29
    Ancient Alien Member harte's Avatar
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    Glad to see you Nick.
    Stones at Pumapunku were carved with chisels. While none have been found, plenty of bronze objects HAVE been found there.
    The copper they had was contaminated in a very fortuitous way. It was naturally alloyed with other metals and when smelted it was almost as strong as cast iron (not forged iron - that's different.)

    On the fine cuts in the andesite (the "H blocks,") there are undercuts in the corners that are exactly what would be expected if chisels had been used.

    Most of the stone at the site is red sandstone - something you can carve with a thumbnail.

    A great many stones there show gouges and scrapes - evidence they were dragged over the ground from quarries.

    Harte
    Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do so. - Bertrand Russell

  10. #30
    Ancient Alien Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by harte View Post
    Glad to see you Nick.
    Stones at Pumapunku were carved with chisels. While none have been found, plenty of bronze objects HAVE been found there.
    The copper they had was contaminated in a very fortuitous way. It was naturally alloyed with other metals and when smelted it was almost as strong as cast iron (not forged iron - that's different.)

    On the fine cuts in the andesite (the "H blocks,") there are undercuts in the corners that are exactly what would be expected if chisels had been used.

    Most of the stone at the site is red sandstone - something you can carve with a thumbnail.

    A great many stones there show gouges and scrapes - evidence they were dragged over the ground from quarries.

    Harte
    H never heard of this before, sounds really interesting, I'd like to know what was added to the copper, and how it was achieved, sounds like it could be a useful alloy. Mronald

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